With his experience as an actor at Yellow Chair Productions, Adeeb Fazah took on the challenge to create something new after the company’s hiatus. He currently holds the position of Artistic Director at The Second Breakfast Company. With a strong vision to engage young audiences and theatre practitioners, Adeeb delves into the importance of young exposure to the theatre and the risks and challenges of operating an independent theatre company in Singapore.

Q: How did you get started in theatre?

The interest has always been there since I was in primary school, but outside of school, my first encounter was when I was asked to join a production at Yellow Chair Productions. This was when I was still in National Service. I was about to leave so I could still do the show and completed the show as a performer. When Yellow Chair Productions went into hiatus in 2015, a few of us came together to form what is now known as The Second Breakfast Company, for which I am the Artistic Director.

Q: What compelled you to be an Artistic Director instead of continuing to be an actor?

It came to be a very natural choice. When I was still in Yellow Chair Productions, I was doing mostly acting but I was also dabbling in some directing. Within the group of five of us who stepped out and started The Second Breakfast Company, I was the one with the most directing experience. I think it was natural also because I happened to be the designate for the next Artistic Director at Yellow Chair Productions, should it not have gone into hiatus. 

So the choice was quite natural and I was okay to challenge myself to take up that position. I was very excited because we were all very fresh out of doing a lot of things at Yellow Chair Productions but now we have a platform of our own and to go down our own trajectory. Obviously then, that meant that I wasn’t doing any acting for a while and I still don’t do much acting and I feel very out of touch with it. But I also feel like I am exploring this Artistic Director role even as I’m into my fifth year now. 

Q: Given your extensive involvement from school plays at an early age, how important do you think exposure to the arts in schools or at a young age is to the sustainability of the local arts ecosystem? 

I think it’s important because it’s about who the next generation of audience is going to come see the work. It feels like the economy of Singapore theatre, there is so much supply but there is so little demand. That’s why the competition is always so stiff. You’re always competing for a very limited amount of resources, whether it’s space, time or money. Whereas if you had a wider pool of audience and a more ready consumer base, it’s easier to do that. There will be a lot less competition and there will be a lot more that you can do. I feel like we are lacking a more ready audience. An audience that comes in with a very open mind of what the arts can give them, to see what else there is besides the Broadway musicals and the Pangdemonium plays. 

If the students can be exposed to the arts as many times as possible, then that would be to everyone’s benefit.  If I can recall my experience in school, I think it was only in Secondary School that the school brought us to a theatre and it was to a production at the Esplanade. It was so weird because we were in Secondary 1 and the story was about terrorism and it had a rape scene, obviously it was done artistically so they got through the censorship. This was based on a story of the rape and murder of Huang Na. It was a very big story in Singapore, it was quite a gruesome attack on a very young person. 

When I went there, I was so intrigued and blown away. Also because I was in the drama club, everyone was quite encouraging like, “Let’s go see this show, who wants to come?” I think I was very well-exposed to the arts, therefore, my appetite was quite up there even at that age. I was already asking “What else is there beyond Shakespeare, what else can I see?”. I think it’s so crucial and it really comes down to how we prioritise what kind of education our students get. And if you look at it now, it’s a bit of a demoralising situation.

Q: From our observation, we noted that there is a huge discrepancy especially in the theatre landscape. Major theatre companies are backed by huge sponsors and have elaborate venues while the smaller companies run on very small core teams and sometimes struggle to sell tickets due to their niche content. It can feel like a huge risk either way for a young and aspiring theatre practitioner,  1) The barriers of entering an established company where almost everyone has so much experience in what they do and 2) The financial insecurities that one can face with a smaller company. 

What has your experience been like in easing these barriers and what are the challenges that remain?

It’s very hard because we are always having to demonstrate how good we are when we compete for finance and space. If you survey the landscape of what shows the major companies are doing for example, a lot of the works that come out of Singapore Repertory Theatre and Pangdemonium, they tend to be the more internationally renowned works - Shakespeare in the Park, et cetera. Whereas a company might have a harder time if they are doing new works and new Singaporean stories. It becomes a very hard task because you have to start from scratch and build your audience base from nothing, and this has been the way that The Second Breakfast Company has been working too.

We’re not really interested in the adult population as much as the youth population, so it’s also about how we are growing with our audience in terms of the work that we choose to present to them and how we can expand our audience base with every project that we do. You can choose the most niche kind of work but it’s also about how you are speaking to your audience that matters, and what is their experience with the work that they eventually encounter. 

When it comes to risks, it’s quite calculated and I think there is a kind of system for us now at The Second Breakfast Company. The way that we choose and create the work, we prefer to do works that are quite Singaporean. So far, the works that we do are based on either new works from upcoming writers or very old works from the past that haven't been staged recently. Then, as part of the new generation, how do we navigate these older works that have come before us? That’s our main priority and that’s the audience that we are trying to bring in - the ones who are curious about what were people thinking back then, and what are people thinking now as the newer generation, what’s on our minds and what are the struggles that we are going through. 

We have come to terms that our works will not speak to everybody because some audiences will still not care for some writers simply because they have never heard of their name. Even some critics will be like “Who do you think you are, to write a play and stage it?” That is really not our concern. Though, when we first started, we would worry about bad reviews. When a reviewer hates a certain writer, thoughts of not working with that writer again would come to mind. But I think it’s also important to be clear about where we are, why we exist, and what we intend to do and really just making the best out of it. The way we create work is important for us, it’s not so much about bringing in the best people, that’s not the way we hope to create work. 

We are also interested in building up the necessary foundation in a very seedling, fringe landscape. I think one of the main things that we do that is quite different is that every year we do an open audition. We do see a very wide variety of newcomers who are looking for avenues to exercise their creative muscles, to get some work, and to start branching out and networking with people who are already in the scene. I think that’s very important for us as a company. 

As a practitioner, I am also very interested in who the new entrants are and what we can do to give them the chance to be seen and have some experience. A lot of the people that we have worked with over the years have also gone on to do work with other companies and major companies, and we are very happy for them. You can also see that in the last 1-2 years, newer groups such as Playwrights Commune and Bridging the Gap have come out . It's really about what is the first stepping stone for a newcomer and I think if we can do that, our independent scene can be so much better in many ways.

Q: You mentioned that it’s not about bringing in the best people and you wanna work with people who want to bring their ideas on stage, especially young people as well, so how do you calculate risk in that sense? 

I think it depends. The fresher they are, the riskier it becomes. You would want to put them in a less risky position. For example, if I feel like this person has never done a production before but their acting is good or suitable for the role, then we will see how far we can push this person. 

When I was doing The Concubine with Isaiah, I had an interview with reviewer Bakchormeeboy. One of the questions that I got was, “Why are you taking such a risk doing this production because nobody knows of this play, it’s a very new play and it’s a solo autobiographical performance and who is Isaiah in the industry?” It’s true, Isaiah is young and he’s 23 or 24, and his body of work is still very early career. But for me it’s not so much that it’s a gamble, I’m not just throwing money and seeing where it lands. It is a calculated risk, it’s all these educated guesses about how we can make this work to our advantage. I think that’s the point in the risks that we are taking as very independent, fringe kind of artmakers, that you are slowly growing your craft, the demand for your work, your audience base, and scale of work.

And when we did The Hawker, we had an intern who came in to be our set designer because she did a school project on set design for that show, so it was quite a natural choice for us to bring her in. But she had no experience, so Victoria Lim, who was the Production Manager who has worked with the likes of Pangdemonium, came in to be a mentor in a way. That was the kind of dynamic we built into the staging, where people would be able to learn from each other, and level up their game. It’s about how and where we can put this person so they don’t go in blind.

Q: What piece of advice would you give to aspiring producers/artistic directors?

Don’t be scared, the task will seem very daunting. Talk to people, ask them how they did it. See whether there are interested people who would like to collaborate with you in whatever capacity, then build your own team. Start small but don’t be scared to start. 

For example, when I went into The Concubine without a Production Manager, the learning curve was very steep, so I really appreciated that experience because I felt like I needed to go through that in order to up my game as a director so I can have a wider viewpoint when I go into my next project. 

Q: What can we look forward to from you?

I am a lot more confident in executing independent productions with a wider group of collaborators now. In the last two years, I did a lot more independent productions than all the years before that. That has been very fun and rewarding, things like the National Arts Council’s Digital Presentation Grant gave birth to my Zoom productions of Xiao Ming and Broken Turns last year.

Moving forward, I am interested in doing more self-initiated projects with different people who have different approaches and do it on an independent scale without the support of a big company or institution. I think if we can find a way to make it work, it will work out. I am next involved in an independent production called Lotus Root Support Group, which happens in March 2022. I got involved as Assistant Producer as I really liked the premise and the promise of the project. You can get tickets here and see what the independents are up to!

Shoutout

The two producers at The Second Breakfast Company, Denise and Kristine. They have been the cornerstones of the work we do because they really map out what’s possible and not possible. Sometimes they see more than I will see in my work as a director. Because The Second Breakfast Company was just born out of nothing. They have been very important in building our own little community and the network of friends that we have. 

Interview by: Jasmine See and Pearlyn Tay